Scaling Up The Right Way - with The Disruptive Entrepreneur, Rob Moore

Aug 25, 2020

It’s the 100th episode of Scale Up Your Business, and to celebrate this momentous event, Nick has invited a very special guest indeed.

Rob Moore, known to the world as The Disruptive Entrepreneur, could be said to have planted the seed that would one day become Scale Up Your Business. As well as being one of Nick’s mentors, he is known throughout the business world as one of the most successful disruptors out there, holding three world records for speaking, authoring several best-sellers, founding the UK’s largest property education business, and still finding time to own and manage over 750 properties with his business partner.

It’s a mindset masterclass this week, for this very special 100th episode!



  • Life and business are a series of opportunities and decisions that can take our journey towards infinite possibilities. The ability to see the possibilities of each decision come from developing a growth mentality.
  • Far too often we get hung up on investing in material possessions that do nothing to advance us. Investment in one’s self is the best investment we can make.
  • When we begin, our desire for security and assets is understandable, and should be encouraged. But as we progress, we should always seek to lean towards growth and altruism.
  • If we design our scaling ambitions to be much larger than we need, we are able to easily surpass the smaller checkpoints along the way.
  • Disruption is a positive thing. Progress has always been made by the outside thinkers. Societies change and new orders have arisen repeatedly. It is the disruptive thinkers who lead the charge.



‘If I don’t see the reason in something that’s happening, I’m not getting the lesson'

‘What you feed your mind - your thoughts become’

’The investment in yourself is the best investment you can make’

‘My vision and my mission needed to be much bigger than myself’

‘When people listen to you, they should also honour your uniqueness'



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Rob Moore is a triple best-selling Property Author, public speaker, entrepreneur, and multi-million- pound Property Investor.  He co- founded the UK’s biggest property education company Progressive Property in 2006 with Mark Homer and has since helped over 100,000 entrepreneurs towards achieving the same, including consulting for many established multi-millionaires and keynoting at some of the UK’s most important business events.



My name is Nick Bradley. I’m an entrepreneur, author, speaker and investor. My background is in growing and scaling VC and Private Equity backed businesses.

Having successfully built, bought and sold a number of companies, and removed myself from day-to-day operations, my focus now is on helping entrepreneurs get to where they want to be, in business and in life. As well as investing in growth businesses and backing turnarounds - with the ultimate aim of creating value from significant capital events.

I’m passionate about personal and professional development - showing up and being the best version of myself ... every day.

My bigger vision is to help bring entrepreneurial skills, experience and mindset to people in developing nations - so they can follow their dreams, live life more on their terms - utilising entrepreneurship as a global force for good.



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Episode Transcript:

Nick Bradley:                      Hi, everybody. Nick Bradley here and welcome to a very special episode of Scale Up Your Business. It's the 100th episode, and I am delighted to have with me, someone who I would call a mentor and someone who I would actually say got me started on this whole podcast thing. It's none other than the Disruptive Entrepreneur himself, Mr. Rob Moore - welcome to Scale Up Your Business!

Rob Moore:                        Thank you, Nick. It's a pleasure to be on your 100th episode. I'm very grateful. I believe it's a thing for anniversaries. Didn't you just have an anniversary with your wife recently as well?

Nick Bradley:                      Yeah, this is a big weekend for us. So we had our 11th wedding anniversary, and we've got her birthday today, and the only thing I'm allowed to do today, Rob, is interview you!

Rob Moore:                        Well, then your wife is amazing.

Nick Bradley:                      I'll tell you something funny as I was taking my kids out for a quick breakfast this morning while my wife was having a massage. And I said, "I've got a big episode of Scale Up Your Business today." And my eight-year-old goes, "Oh, have you got the Queen on, Daddy?" and I said, "No, not the queen." And she goes, "Have you got Boris Johnson on, Daddy?" And I said, "No." I said, "But I've got pretty much royalty of UK business podcasting." So I thought you'd enjoy that. Listen, for people who don't know you, Rob, now, obviously in the UK, there isn't that many, of what I'd call really great business podcasts. That's my opinion. Yours is certainly one of the ones I recommend. And it's what got me into podcasting. But for our US audience, and about 60% of our listeners are from the US, do you want to do a quick introduction of who you are and what you're about?

Rob Moore:                        Sure. Well, I'm an entrepreneur. I started business when I was six years old because my dad got me working in his pub. We always lived in pubs and hotels probably up until the age of 15, I would say. And so I was used to mucking in and working and I loved it. My dad would get me bottling up the shelves and filling the fridges from the busy nights before. He'd get me emptying the tills and the pool tables and the fruit machines and the pinball machines of all the money. Back then there were 10 pieces that were huge, and he'd get me to count them all and backup all the money. And he'd say, "How much was the take last night, son?" And we'd add it all up together. And so he taught me to count.

Rob Moore:                        I could do maths really well in terms of counting in my head from the age of six. So it was kind of instilled within me from a young age, but then the school system, which by the way, I don't knock. If you want to be a doctor, a dentist, a lawyer, then go to the school system, the university system. And that's probably a good route, but when you want to be an entrepreneur and you want to set up a nonconventional business, I'm not sure that's the right route. So I got stuck into that system and I went to university because I perceived that that's what smart people did, because that's what I was told. If you're smart, you go to uni, but I ended up doing a subject I had no interest in, it was a real waste of time for business.

Rob Moore:                        It wasn't a waste of time for social and don't get me wrong. But that's a different podcast. And so, yeah, so I'm like what, 25 years old, three years out of uni, racked up 50 grand worth of debt, on a car loan, on going out, and university accommodation, and then two or three years of just spending a bit more than I earned each week or month. And then my dad had a nervous breakdown, a huge nervous breakdown in his pub on December the 15th, 2005. And he got sectioned. He got beaten up by the police. This was 15 years ago and he's kind of okay now, but he's three years into about his fourth, what we call an episode and an episode is when he's manic either very high or very low. And so he's had four major episodes in the last 15 years and they tend to last two, three, four years.

Rob Moore:                        Then we have two or three years of relative normality, on massive mood stabilisers. He's in his mid-70s now. And that day, December the 15th, 2005 really woke me up and shook me up. And I guess it was reborn in me, that entrepreneurial spirit or desire that was clearly there, but I'd forgotten. So I set up as an artist, evenings and weekends. While I worked in the pub a couple of years before, wasn't really making it. And then end of December, I just started seizing opportunities that came my way because I was desperate from what happened with my dad. And sometimes some pain and desperation can be good for you to create accountability, to step up, to stop making excuses, to stop being a victim, to stop blaming everyone else. And I did all those things, Nick for quite a few years, even though I had a good upbringing.

Rob Moore:                        So I started going to property events because people were telling me to, I started listening to sales audios, and reading property and mindset books because people told me too. And I was just started opening my mind to opportunities. And so in February 2006, I blagged a job in a property company where you could say, I was kind of an apprentice. Now I was going to work there for free in the day and do my art evenings and weekends. But my current business partner helped me get that job. And he blagged for me a minimum wage, but £500 commission on all, any property I sold, I got £500 commission and I would've worked for free. I never told them at the time, but I would have done. And I worked there for a year and it was like a tenure.

Rob Moore:                        It was better than three degrees you could get because I was sourcing properties. I was selling directly to the end users. There was only me and Mark and then our boss. So, and we were really on the cold face of this sort of quite young, but disruptive company. We learned, we had to do all of the sales ourself, the marketing ourself, the admin ourself, the lead generation ourself. We were doing our own Google AdWords campaigns, everything. And it was a great education. But in that year, probably halfway through, I could feel that entrepreneurial fire again, whereby I don't make a very good employee. I've had three jobs. Yeah, I've had three jobs and been fired three times.

Nick Bradley:                      Yeah. You and me, both mate. I've had exactly that same experience.

Rob Moore:                        Yeah. Hey, look, I tried it. You don't know, unless you try. I tried being employed. It just didn't work out for me. And that was okay. But the chap who helped me get that job, Mark Homer at the end of that year, 2006, we actually left. It's a long story I'll get into that another day. And we sold our progressive property in 2007. So fast forward now, and I don't know, I guess we've done about 120 million pounds in sales of our training company. We've got I don't even know the value of our property portfolio is tens of millions. And in London that'd be hundreds of millions. We're doing one project right now that's 100-unit conversion. I reckon it will be worth 21 million when done. We've got one on the other side of the road that's an old Poundland that we're converting into 35 units.

Rob Moore:                        So property and training, they're my, I guess, two main companies and they do me well. They can sometimes be north of 20 million a year in turnover or gross revenue. Social media has become a quite big thing for me. So I have some pretty good platforms and following on YouTube and Facebook and my podcast, the Disruptive Entrepreneur. I've written 16 books and we're editing 17, 18 and 19 right now. So by the end of the year, I'd have done 19 books, either ghost written, co-written or authored purely myself. So I guess when people say entrepreneurs, some people maybe, I don't know, could you define them as an entrepreneur? But if an entrepreneur is someone who takes the risk in the hope of profit in multiple disciplines and likes juggling many different businesses and being creative and innovative and disruptive. I guess there's many things that I'm not Nick, but that would be one thing that I am.

Nick Bradley:                      Well, I've been around your world. If you want to call it that for a few years now, as I mentioned at the beginning, I didn't think I'd be doing this podcast and have 100 episodes if I hadn't sort of sat in a room with you and heard you speak about the power of getting a message out there. But I want to go back a step to something you said. So do you ever think back to that episode, that situation with your dad and wonder if that didn't happen, what you would have become? Because that was obviously a turning point for you. Have you thought of and reflected on that?

Rob Moore:                        Yeah. Well, if you think about it, every nanosecond of every day, we're faced with a decision aren't we? Every question you ask me that I could maybe come up with 10 or 20 different answers to those questions. And so every day we're faced with thousands of decisions. So to say, would my life have taken a different route, Nick is to assume just two decisions. One is to carry on with what I was doing. And one is, was to change to where I went. So in that regard, it's difficult to answer because I don't think any opportunity or decision is binary, where is A or B. I think is A or infinite other opportunities. And thankfully I chose A, I chose the correct color pill on December the 15th, 2005. But I had a million opportunities in 2005 and four and three and two, but I couldn't see them because I was so negative and so in victim mentality and so down on myself and felt like I was unlucky and everyone else had it better. And I was born into the wrong family in the wrong country, in the wrong culture with no opportunities. And I was just so down on myself.

Rob Moore:                        I guess, where you're going with the question Nick is, had I carried on down the road I was on and not taken the decision to step up and be an entrepreneur and start my own business where might I be? Well, I mean, I would have carried on working in my dad's pub through the day or certain shifts, earning no more than that 200 quid a week. I would have carried on trying to do my art and might I have made it? Maybe. Likely? No. I mean, I would have made it in art if I'd have just kept going and got my art into more galleries and negotiated with more museums and places and furniture shops and places that will exhibit your art and getting agents and getting my agents to get my work out there.

Rob Moore:                        But I avoided all that because I hated the sales, the marketing, the business side of art... I hated it. And I think it was Andy Warhol said that great art is great business. I probably butchered the quote, but I think he really believed and Damien Hirst, I believe, that they embraced the business side of art. I mean, I embraced the arty side of business as well. I don't think you can split those. I think you can be very creative in business and you can be very commercial in art. And I wasn't commercial in art, I separated them. I thought you can either be creative or commercial and I wanted to be creative. So I guess I'd predestined my own road to failure. My mum and dad ended up having to let the pub go and sort of retiring about three years after 2005. But they retired with nothing.

Rob Moore:                        So you could have said, if I'd have carried them where I was going, I'd have earned 200 quid a week max for another three years. And then when they retired out, I've had to do something else because I'd have been left with nothing. And I don't know what that would have been.

Nick Bradley:                      No. I mean, do you believe though, that things happen for a reason?

Rob Moore:                        I think it depends how you look at it. I think if you look at everything is happening for a reason, you can find the reason in it. Some of my mentors say everything that happens, happens on the way, not in the way. On the way means, oh, your challenge is on your path towards your journey. Whereas in the way means it's an obstacle you can't get past. So I couldn't say for sure if everything happens for a reason, because I don't think anyone on this planet alive has the answer to divinity or-

Nick Bradley:                      No and I don't want to go into kind of faith and all that. That's not the point of it. I just having now interviewed 50 or 60 entrepreneurs all over the world. And I know you've done hundreds more than that. There seems to be a consistent story, not always, but more often than not, you hear of something that happens and whether we attach more meaning to that thing that actually is there, or whether it comes into the right time where actually we are looking for something different, if you know what I mean, that sort of thing. And then all of a sudden that has a greater gravitas, there seems to be something which pushes people in a direction or guides them in a direction, which wasn't there beforehand. And that's what I was kind of getting at.

Rob Moore:                        Yeah, no, I was just going to get there actually, because I just wanted to... I try and answer questions very accurately and sometimes that doesn't lend to a soundbitey answer, but I think it's important to get people thinking. So where I was going with this is everything happens for a reason if you perceive there to be a reason that everything happens. Whereas if you don't perceive there to be a reason for anything happening, then there is no reason for anything. So I think it's down to your perception and this is the thing about being an entrepreneur, perception is everything. So if you believe that when your dad has a nervous breakdown outside your pub, and is getting beaten up by the police in front of you, if you believe yourself to be a victim and weak and powerless, and you're going to go back and hide in your house and paint some more, never face the world, then that's your reality.

Rob Moore:                        But I guess I saw greater meaning and reason on that day. And I couldn't say it was on that day Nick, because sometimes you hear a lot of stories, don't you, on Netflix or in autobiographies like the one day, the one moment of change. Well that nagged at me for a good week where I hated myself for a week and I beat myself up for a week and I felt extreme shame and embarrassment for a week. But in that week I must've asked myself 1000 questions I've never asked before. And that got me to 1000 decisions that I've never done before. Things that I was scared of, like going to networking events as an artist, that's scary. I mean, everyone's talking property and you're an artist, that is scary. And meeting business people when you're a real creative, you like Rage Against The Machine, and they're into business, all in suits and you're in these weird arty clothes, that was scary. Selling on the phone, that was scary. Public speaking, that was scary. But I did all those scary things because I now had a greater reason. I had a greater pain than my fears. So do I now believe everything happens for a reason? I believe if I don't see the reason in something happening, I'm not getting the lesson. So yes, I'm trying to see the reason in everything that happens, good or not good, so that I can get the lesson that life is teaching me.

Nick Bradley:                      Okay. That's a great answer. And I'm glad we did go a little bit deeper into that. I mean, a lot of people listen to this show and they think it's just going to be talking about marketing and sales and how you raise finance. But we tend to go a little bit more into the mindset side of things because I think it's interesting for people just to learn about how people have got to where they've got to, the nuances actually matter. You see what I mean?

Rob Moore:                        Yeah. I agree.

Nick Bradley:                      So with that step, then obviously you went in to, we talked about you going into property. What was the driving thing that was on the back of your mind? Was it to create wealth at that point in time to kind of step change where you were that trajectory? Or did you have something else, a greater mission in mind at that point?

Rob Moore:                        I think it was a journey, Nick. I don't think everything happened at once. The initial action was away from pain. So it was like, I'm failing, my dad is really ill, I've got to do something. I didn't know what, I didn't know how, but the pain was enough to push me to go and do things that were uncomfortable for me. But I felt like my answers might lie within property investing, working in a company that is more commercial, sales, marketing, all these areas that I guess I'd rejected. So that was step one. And then I suppose I was on a search for, "Okay, what could I be really interested in?" Because I was only ever really interested in art. I didn't know how else I could have a profession other than working for someone else like my dad, and I actually found out quite soon that property was definitely something that I liked the idea of. One, because it seemed to be fun. Two, because it seemed to be a really great moneymaking model, you look at anyone on the rich list and you talk to anyone who's worth a lot of money, property's right up there. It's very tangible. It's very real. You can turn it around, you can own it and earn on it for decades or even hundreds of years. It can make your children and their children rich. There was a lot of boxes that were ticked in properties. So that was probably stage two. Stage three was probably like, I'm more interested in general business than just bricks and mortar. I always liked the idea of how to source the properties. I like the idea of the marketing campaigns. I like the company set up and the structure, not just the properties themselves.

Rob Moore:                        So then that took me wider into being a businessman or an entrepreneur. So I suppose they're the three main steps. It was, "I don't know what I need to do, but I've got to do something so start looking." and then it was, "Property's interesting." And then it was wait a minute. Business and entrepreneurship are even more interesting because then that opened the door for all my books and all my podcasts and all my social media stuff.

Nick Bradley:                      Okay, cool. Now the reason, I mean, probably you don't know my full story and this is me interviewing you, so I'm not going to get into it, but the listeners know my story. And I had a lot of collisions at one point, which forced me into a direction if you like, well, I feel it did any way. But over that time, what I did is I had to get into a different room. I say often that if you're the biggest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And so one of those rooms I got into was your room and a number of other people. A question I've got for you is, what happened in terms of education and mentorship through that transition? You said you learnt a lot when you got put into that world of property in that first year, but what else did you do around that time to kind of help you get what you needed to take that journey?

Rob Moore:                        Yeah. So 2006 was my absolute breakthrough year in that regard. So in 2005, I'd never read a book other than Fantastic Mr. Fox. I didn't even read my GCSE or A level books. I just blagged them because I hated reading. I didn't want anyone to tell me what to do. What do you know? I was very, I was arrogant, but not in a cocky outwardly way, but it's, "I'm not listening to you. What can you tell me? Who do you think you are? I'll find out. I'll do it my way." So the idea of a mentor was like an anti-concept to me. I'd never spent a penny on my education, yet I was buying £500 suits when I was earning £200 a week. And that was pre-2005. And then in 2006, I read, Think and Grow Rich, Richest Man in Babylon, Who Moved My Cheese? Rich Dad Poor Dad. Oh yeah. Great. All that, Total Recall, Arnold Schwarzenegger's autobiography, I can list loads of books. And then, you know what it's like when you read a good book, you read a good book, but then that references three or five books and then you read those and then they reference three or five books. And all of a sudden you've opened a matrix of an infinite number of doors. And so in 2006 I got a mentor. I got a coach. I went on courses. I was in a mastermind. I read books, when you could I started listening to audio books, when you could I started listening to podcasts and I invested in myself and I'd never seen... I'd quite happily put a 50-inch TV on the wall for a few grand when I didn't have it back then or Bang & Olufsen TV that would rotate when I didn't have the money, but not invest in my education, my mentorship, my knowledge. And I now do believe it is true to say that the investment in yourself is the best investment you could make. I'm actually now just looking for my next mentor. I've got two people who I'm down to. We're just lining up a package on each of those. I've had many mentors over the years, very famous ones like James Khan who was on Dragons' Den. I don't know how many courses I've done in the last 15 years. And I don't know how many masterminds I've been on. By now, I've spent, invested a seven figure sum myself, Mark, and for my staff on education, mentorship, masterminding courses, et cetera. And I believe that you have to feed your mind and what you feed your mind, your thoughts become.

Rob Moore:                        So if you feed your mind with podcasts and audio books on business and personal development, mindset and strategy and disruption and overcoming challenges and growth, then that's going to be your overwhelming thought process. Whereas if you watch mainstream media, I just watched recently the Diana two-part series, and I also watched the Rupert Murdoch three-part series and basically, I don't want to get too much into this, but I really think there's a major problem with the media in this country. I watched the Nicolas Anelka documentary yesterday and basically there was a ruling that enabled the media to make up quotes if they felt that the context upon which those quotes were based were true. And how can you make up-

Nick Bradley:                      It's crazy. I mean, I spent 15 years in it. I mean, I worked with Rupert Murdoch for seven years in Australia.

Rob Moore:                        Yeah. I'm not knocking him, by the way.

Nick Bradley:                      No, no, no, no. We want to talk about empires in a minute.

Rob Moore:                        But so many people are getting fed stuff that isn't true, stuff that's biased, stuff that's got ulterior motives, stuff that doesn't serve them, stuff that doesn't make the world a better place. And if you get rid of all of that and you feed your mind the opposite of that, you will become what you feed your mind. I really believe in that.

Nick Bradley:                      No, I love that. I love that. I believe it too. I mean, I'm not a big believer in sort of watching every bit of news or trying to kind of get myself overwhelmed by the amount of information, because if you don't, to some extent, control that or work out what you feed your mind with, it's just going to happen to you, I find, because there's just so much stuff these days. Question for you on all of that and particularly now, because I've got two mentors and a coach now, and I'm in a similar sort of journey in terms of the investment side of it. Do you find you can do too much or do too much too quickly so that you've got so much floating around that to actually move that into taking action, it becomes difficult or are you really good at getting precision around taking something in and then seeing how that applies?

Rob Moore:                        I think with anything you can have excess so if you have 10 different mentors and they're all giving you polarized advice that could be overwhelming or confusing, for sure. I think if you go on loads of courses and never write any notes and don't actually set any actions, I would say that that's probably not the best use of your investment. But what I would say is if you're going on courses and you're educating yourself and you're listening to audio books and podcasts, I would say that some of the information is probably sinking in on the subconscious level and will manifest out in the actions and decisions you make. So some people say, "Oh, well education is nothing without action." I actually don't agree with that. I think if you feed your mind enough, there will be unconscious actions because your thoughts lead to decisions and your decisions lead to actions.

Rob Moore:                        So just because you don't do it on the day of the course doesn't mean you'll ever do it, but I do think there is such a thing as a course junkie. And by the way, I'm a course junkie, but I think the excessive course junkie is the person that gets the hit, the dopamine hit out of the education, but not out of the action. And the education is a means of procrastination. And we all go through that. So I would just say, I just have a little rule when it comes to being in a mastermind, listening to an audio book and that is, as I'm listening or learning or in that situation, it immediately implements minimum three things. So I'll give you an example, I'm listening to an audio book on disruption right now because it's one of my favorite subjects being the disruptive entrepreneur and having a podcast called the Disruptive Entrepreneur.

Rob Moore:                        And I was working out this morning, listening to it. And there was one thing that the lady said that I thought, "Oh, I could put that in my vision meetings." Let me just find it because I emailed it to myself. It just says, what do your future customers need? So most companies are thinking about what their current customers need, but she believes that disruption is finding out what your future customers need. And I just thought that could be good in our vision meeting. So when we're talking about next quarter, next year, and we're looking to disrupt ourselves. Not just asking what's the new business model and where do we want to move into, but what do our future customers need? Now that's one audio book. And I immediately sent that to myself, to put in my vision meeting agenda and implementing that will have a return on investment on that audio book.

Rob Moore:                        So I just endeavor to have minimum three things I implement. And if you spend a grand two grand, five grand, 10 grand, 50 grand on a course or mentorship or masterminding and you implement three key result area or income generating tasks, they're going to pay for the course. Now many many masterminds I do because I'm a coach in many masterminds and I'm also a peer in one. I'll often come out with 40 or 45 different actions. I went to a mastermind day just last week. There was about 45 potential actions. I whittled it down to 15. Then I sent the 15 to one of my team members to implement. Job done, return on investment. So it's about getting clear on your return on investment. And I think if you want mentors, you can have more than one business mentor, but get one, maybe two max mentors in each discipline, you probably only have one personal trainer. You probably only have one, go to a martial arts class. Maybe you do two. So just don't have too many.

Nick Bradley:                      Yeah, no. I went to Tony Robbins Date With Destiny a few years ago and there's a guy I sat next to who had been on his eighth in a row and no judgment of course, but I did say, "How are you finding that?" And he goes, "I just, I get accountability out of coming." And I was like, "Okay, fair enough" But I thought your destiny doesn't change that often.

Rob Moore:                        That is very true. But at the same time, what's it better to be addicted to? Going on motivational courses or going down the pub and having 12 pints of beer? So I think that I am a bit of a course junkie. I'm a bit of an information and education junkie. Do I implement even 80? Do I implement even 20% of what I learned? Probably not, but the other 80%'s got to be rattling in there. Now some people say, "Oh, but Rob, it's really hard to retain information and you don't retain most of it." Give your subconscious mind some credit. It's a pretty amazing supercomputer. So this is why I like audio books as opposed to physical books, because I can listen to an audio book when I'm in the gym, in my garden or when I'm on a walk or when I'm in the car. And a lot of that stuff is going in at the unconscious level. How do you know it's not going to manifest at the right time next week, next month, next year? It's going to come through you.

Nick Bradley:                      Yeah. I find the, sometimes there's connections that come together from different things. So I'll be in a room with someone and they'll say something and then I'll be in a room with someone else and then three or four things connect together and you get clarity from that. So it's the piecing together subconsciously, which makes the difference to get you to that point too. Cool.

Rob Moore:                        You hear the same thing three or four times on three or four different audios. And the first time you did nothing with it, but you're, "Why am I hearing that again and that again? I've got to do something about that."

Nick Bradley:                      No, I remember the first time I invested in myself at all, it was buying a Tony Robbins tape or download tape or whatever else. And I was like paying 300 quid thinking, "What am I doing? What am I doing?" And then I think back, actually my wife's probably going to listen to this or she might be already. So I won't say exactly what I've spent over the last three years, but it's a size a sizeable sum, Rob.

Rob Moore:                        Invested. Invested.

Nick Bradley:                      It's an investment. Oh my God, the return though. And we've talked about this offline, the return on everything that I've done because my belief system changed fundamentally too. I was private equity guy and I was in a world that felt quite toxic to me for various reasons and being able to help people through this podcast and get the feedback that I'm doing that, has changed the way that I operate and the way that I think about things. And that in turn has returned more than anything monetary, it's been powerful.

Rob Moore:                        100%.

Nick Bradley:                      Cool. Let's talk about scale-up, let's talk about scale-up and I want to talk about in the context of your definition partly by exploring your journey here, because you've got multiple businesses now. First question is where do you want to go? Do you want more businesses? What are you trying to create and build?

Rob Moore:                        Okay. So my vision is to help as many people on the planet start and scale their business and get a better financial education. And I believe that my books and podcast and my social media presence and my content, and my companies all cascade down from that vision and support that vision. I have a foundation, the Rob Moore Foundation which does the same thing, especially for young and underprivileged entrepreneurs. Or I define an entrepreneur as someone who wants to create a meaningful product or service. Someone who wants to make a meaningful difference on the planet. So a lot of people wouldn't define themselves as entrepreneurs, whereas if you're creative, innovative, and you've got an amazing or interesting story or a different way of bringing a product or service to market, I believe you're an entrepreneur. So really that's my grand vision. It's my immortal vision, because I would like to think that it would live beyond me. If I were to die at the end of this live interview, one, you'd probably get more downloads. So I'd probably be good for you.

Nick Bradley:                      I hope that doesn't happen Rob, but thank you for that. Thank you for that.

Rob Moore:                        I believe that my content would live long beyond me. And I'd like my content to live for hundreds of years beyond me and the difference that I make, and I believe that the millions of tens of millions, hundreds of millions that come along are a result of that. And that would be what my empire is built around. So really for me, the vision, which is the ethereal, creates the tangible companies, books, content, et cetera. And I'm not particularly fixed to how many companies I'll have and how many properties I'll have and how many schools or libraries I might build or whatever. Because as long as I'm moving towards that vision, as long as I'm on a mission towards that vision, then I quite like the mystery of how the physical assets that support that will manifest.

Rob Moore:                        I think a lot of people are trying to plan too much and want to be too clear and too specific with their goals. But I like the mystery that I could build a school in a developing country or continent. I could build a library. It might be an online library. It might not be a physical library. It might be an online library with terabytes worth of content, or I could be in the developing world helping install wired internet connections. I could have different training companies in different countries. I could be on a social media platform that doesn't even exist today. And as long as they move me closer towards my vision, which by the way, when you have a clear vision, you have spontaneous priority, clarity, you dissolve overwhelm and procrastination. So for me, that's always the guiding light. If I'm a bit like, "Oh, I should I be doing this? Am I getting distracted? I'll just check in." Will it move me towards my vision? If it does I do it, if it doesn't, I don't. And the rest is up to the ethereal, the intangible.

Nick Bradley:                      When did you work that out? Was there a point where, okay, I've now got X 100 properties or was this something that's just built over time or did you actually go away and really think about this? Or I'm just curious about how you got to that clarity.

Rob Moore:                        Yeah. All of those, I reckon I got clear on that may be six or seven years ago. So I started in business 15 years ago. My initial reason for being in business was to A, get out of debt because I was in nearly 50 grand's worth of debt, and B, do something with my life to make my dad proud. Then we built various companies that were the strategic business models that would help me get out of debt and help me make some money. And then I remember wanting 5 grand a month, then 10 grand a month. And then I remember wanting to be a millionaire and having a target of before the age of 30 and I actually hit it before the age of 31. And then you want two million, five million, 10 million, whatever. But I think I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for me.

Rob Moore:                        They say charity starts at home. And I think when you start, it's okay to want to get out of debt and to want to make money for yourself and look after your family and create a nest egg and a pension and an asset base and some security. That's all good. You've got to do that, serving others, otherwise that'll be much harder, but I think when you get to a point when you realise you've got enough money and I've had that realisation a few times, I'm on my fifth retirement at the moment, Nick.

Nick Bradley:                      Have you retired again?

Rob Moore:                        Yeah. No one, no one believes me but yeah, I've retired. But I've had the realisation a few times I don't need any more money, but I believe there is a human need within us all to grow. There is a human need within us all to find out our purpose and to find a way to connect that with creating the most value on this planet. I believe there is an inbuilt human neurological biological need. Why else do we always want more? Why do we get reward chemicals that flow through our body when we achieve something difficult? Why do we keep getting thrown challenges all the time? If you answer these questions I think the consistent answer is it's all forced feedback to grow, to scale, to become better, bigger, more valuable to society. I'm just going to walk in and put my laptop on charge Nick, I won't go anywhere.

Nick Bradley:                      Yeah. That's fine. That's all right, mate.

Rob Moore:                        I'll probably talk while I'm walking. So a lot of people see growth as just, "I just want this problem to go away. So then I can relax and retire and be secure and quit my job and live off the passive income, et cetera." Am I right to jump in here? And I just don't think that's the meaning of life. I am a bit more restless and fidgety and relentless and impatient. And I don't know what the opposite of boredom is, but I don't handle boredom very well.

Nick Bradley:                      Someone said the opposite of boredom is fear. I heard that definition one time. It's quite an interesting way of reflecting on it. Because if you challenge yourself, you feel fear. You feel that kind of that edge, if you like, to do something, but boredom is the opposite, it's an interesting paradigm really.

Rob Moore:                        It is a weird paradox in boredom because most entrepreneurs don't like being bored and will stay busy to be bored. And we can convince ourselves we were busy when we were actively procrastinating just not to be bored. But sometimes when you force yourself to be bored, you get your best ideas. So definitely a paradox. And I am in a period of my life right now, where I've retired again, so I'm 41. I first retired when I was 27. I actually talked about my different stages of retirement. I've worked out these four different stages or four different types of retirement having retired so many times.

Nick Bradley:                      I still don't believe you Rob. I'm sort of thinking that this is a point so you can come up with another idea and then you'll come back with-

Rob Moore:                        I don't really care if anyone believes me or not. All I know is that I'm retired today, that's all I know.

Nick Bradley:                      Perfect.

Rob Moore:                        Yeah. I can't remember what the question was but-

Nick Bradley:                      The question was about vision, but you said something I want to come back to because you said there's a point where you came to that about five or six years ago through various things that were happening, but you also made a point that a lot of people, when they're first trying to build something, they're trying to create some wealth or freedom that they're focused on that one thing like it's oxygen. And I'm curious, there's a point where you must have gone through your journey where you saw it working with the property game. There was a point where you thought, "You know what, this is happening now, this is happening. I'm making a certain amount of money." So there's a point where, I don't know, maybe there's a side, there's a kind of letting the breath out. There's a bit like actually I can see a pathway here. And then perhaps your mind opens to some bigger things. I'm not saying this for everyone, but I'm just curious your perspective on that.

Rob Moore:                        Yeah. So I think I got to a stage in my journey as an entrepreneur where I realized my vision and my mission needed to be much bigger than myself. And there's a few reasons for this Nick. One is I believe that if you want to grow, you will grow in direct proportion to the size of your vision. So if you've got a vision to help your community, which is marginally bigger than you, you'll grow to the maximum capacity of your community. But if you have a global vision, you could potentially grow to the maximum capacity of your country or your continent. Now, if you have an intergalactic vision, Elon Musk and Virgin Galactic, then you've got the scale not just in the globe, but you've got the scale of infinite space and time.

Rob Moore:                        John Demartini talks about the world being his playground and wanting to serve as many people on the planet as possible in any country. So I believe the bigger the scale of your vision and the scalability and the reach of your business model and your vision, I believe the more you'll grow and the more you'll contribute. So just trying to get rich yourself is a very small vision. It's self-serving, whereas trying to change the world is serving vast numbers of people. So there are commonalities of the richest people in the world. One of them is an inherent deserving of wealth and opulence, but one of them is a product or a service or a module or a life that serves vast numbers of people. So paradoxically, if you want to become more wealthy, you need to stop thinking about being wealthy for yourself and you need to serve more people and you'll get a portion of that wealth that you create.

Rob Moore:                        And I also think that people don't really care about your personal vision. I don't really think that people care if someone says, "Yeah, I want to be a millionaire. I'm going to be a millionaire. I want to be a millionaire. Yeah, I'm going to be a millionaire." I don't think there's going to be millions of people going, "Yeah. I want you to be a millionaire. Yeah. I'm back with you. I'm with you every step of the way. I'll do whatever you say because I want you to be a millionaire." I mean, look they might be inspired because they want to be a millionaire themselves, maybe. But I think people are interested in people when they've got a product or a service or some content or something to say that benefits them. And this is the concept of fair exchange. So the concept of fair exchange is where you make fair profit for the work that you do and the person, the client, or the people that you serve, they get fair value for the money that they pay for your product or service, where you get fair profit margin.

Rob Moore:                        And fair exchange creates maximum scalability, maximum gratitude for you i.e., you know if you've sold something too cheap, you can be a bit resentful to your clients. It's not their fault. If you sold it too cheap, you, "It's not really worth my time doing this." Whereas if you made a fair profit and you didn't think you were ripping them off, you'd feel gratitude. Now, your client would feel gratitude if they got good value, if they paid too much, they'd feel a bit ripped off. And if they didn't pay enough, they'd feel like they've got one over you. So when there's gratitude in you and gratitude in your client, you have financial fair exchange. Now, if you create financial fair exchange on a global level, you're going to get very rich and the world is going to benefit no end.

Rob Moore:                        And I guess I figured this out, I don't know, maybe a decade ago or just a bit under. And so I started focusing less on myself or more on others. Now, if you just serve everyone else and not yourself, and you don't charge enough, and you're doing all this stuff for free and everything's for charity, then you're doing the opposite. You're negating yourself. So financial fair exchange is where you get maximum profit margin, maximum wealth, but you have to have a desire to serve others and make a difference in the world, as well as becoming a millionaire yourself.

Nick Bradley:                      Yeah, no, well, we talked about growth beforehand and the big thing for me, again, transition was growth and contribution, but I fully believe in... What's that famous Zig Ziglar quote that gets used a lot, which is if you help someone else, so everyone get what they want in life, you have everything you need or want in life. And I still love that as a principle. That's great. Who was the most influential mentor then over that journey? Because you've mentioned, for example, John Demartini a lot and I've studied some of his work. Is he up there or is there anyone else you would like name has been the one who's really? Or is it just a blend of quite a few different people?

Rob Moore:                        I mean, I try and learn from everyone. And I've learned from my competitors and I've learned, I've read so many autobiographies and books and podcasting on so many courses and learn from many. I often get asked this question. I think the person I've learned from the most is Dr. John Demartini. Talking about fair exchange. They should be paying me a lot of money. Because I've got-

Nick Bradley:                      I was going to say you've got a deal there, haven't you? You must've had some affiliate link.

Rob Moore:                        I love Alexander McQueen clothes. I love the Alexander McQueen documentary. I love Audemars Piguet watches. I'm the sort of person when I love something, I would just go and shout about it and I'm not looking for any commissions or anything like that.

Nick Bradley:                      I tell everyone who wants to do a podcast to go and see you, mate. So there you go, so.

Rob Moore:                        That's very kind of you. So now I'll pay it forward. And I would say if people have studied me and consumed a lot of my work and they want to know my influences, Dr. John Demartini has been probably one of my main influences. But if you think about the amount of content I've consumed in the last 15 years, it's got to be on average 10, 15 hours a week times that by 52 times that by 15. So even though I've consumed nearly all of John Demartini's content, I should think other than a couple of his really out there courses, maybe it's still only probably 1% of my influence.

Nick Bradley:                      Yeah. Okay. Got it. No, I think it's a blend of things. I've got a number of people. I think if someone asks me that question, probably Tony Robbins was the one that got me thinking differently because I wasn't thinking anything like that stuff beforehand and whatever people think of him, it definitely made a difference in terms of just my whole belief system. But I agree with you, there's spending a day in the room with you, you get a lot of insight, particularly around some of the practical things, as much as anything else.

Rob Moore:                        So Nick, there's something else I'd like to add to this discussion is really important. When people listen to you, they should also honour your uniqueness. If people listen to me, then they're looking for my take on what I've learned. So I do often get asked a lot, "Who have you learned from, and who's your mentor?" But I'll say this with humility, but I've got 15 years' experience in business doing hundreds of millions of pounds. And getting various accolades, which would make me right up there in the UK with the top business influencers. So never dishonour your own uniqueness, your own interpretation.

Rob Moore:                        Some people say, "Well, there's no new ideas under the sun." Well there is here and there is there because no matter what ideas you and I have learned from mentors, it comes through our own filter, our own experience, our own business journey. So people follow me and follow you for what we bring. And I say that because a lot of people don't honour their own uniqueness, especially people looking to start and scale up in business. Honour your own uniqueness. I've got a unique experience in business in the last 15 years as have you Nick and as anyone listening, and if, okay, you might have only been doing it 15 months or whatever. I've learned as much doing as I have reading and listening on going on courses, I've been at the coalface. So yeah, it's just important to say.

Nick Bradley:                      No, I think no, it's a massive point. I mean, I often say the gift of doing a podcast for me, I mean, there's been lots of gifts, right? But one of the main gifts is I get to spend half an hour, an hour with someone and often the conversations happen well and truly pre or post the recording. And some of the most amazing people, if I think about just education and mentorship as well, and what I've found personally with that is those things, I guess we said before, they kind of rattle around in your head, they're hitting you in different ways. So the perspectives I have, I might not always agree with someone. I might agree what you're saying sometimes and vice versa which is healthy, but you know what? It's hearing those different things and then being able to contextualise them in your own way. And I found that I can then put my message out there, which might be a nuance or a build or whatever else on someone else's. But if that message lands with someone in the right way and helps them, then that's a great thing as well.

Rob Moore:                        100%. And I think a lot of people in the UK are looking for UK influence and not just American influence. Yeah. I love having these conversations. I'm interviewing two billionaires tomorrow and one at one o'clock and one at three o'clock.

Nick Bradley:                      Can you announce who they are Rob?

Rob Moore:                        I'm got to keep it shtum for now.

Nick Bradley:                      100th episode gift for Nick Bradley.

Rob Moore:                        Yeah. I know that there aren't many podcasters that get to interview two billionaires in a day. I feel very grateful and privileged to be able to do that. I'm really pleased for you, Nick, that you've got your podcast started. I remember the course you were in with me and to think now you've done 100 episodes. That makes me feel really good.

Nick Bradley:                      Yeah. Great. Well, listen, let's finish off with a couple of kind of quick practical things if we can Rob spend another couple of minutes of your time. Obviously massive changes is going through the world right now. Business is changing. I don't think it's going to go back to what it was. I think there's some fundamental things that are going to be systemic. What's your advice? If you could give three tips to people who are trying to scale, navigate, even survive, trying to kind of deal with this massive global change, both I suppose, socially, economically the whole piece. What would those things be?

Rob Moore:                        I think the first thing would be going back to the bit I took from the disruption podcast I was listening to. Where is your future customer? Because your customer demographic, your ideal client profile, what your customers want may have changed for you as a company. My customers wanted online because they couldn't get face to face education because of the lockdown. So that was where our change was. It wasn't really a pivot. We were already there. We were already ready. I like the saying don't get ready, be ready. So you got to be ready for things that come along. So yeah. Where is your future customer or what new product or service, whether it's in your market, but a different version or in a new market? Where's the change because the companies that find that change the quickest, they are the companies in the sectors that are going to win and going to win big.

Rob Moore:                        So I'd say that's my first tip. I'd say the second one is you've seeing disruption as a positive. So if you study time, history, empires are built and empires last for hundreds, or even sometimes one to 2000 years, and then they break and then new empires are built and then they break. So anytime there's major disruption like a mini cycle of a recession or a unique situation like this quarantine, this COVID, there's actually a new order built where the old empire is to a certain degree destroyed, that's the chaos. And then the new order is formed. So especially if you're a startup or a scale up, i.e. you're not a mature company in your market, this lockdown situation may have actually wiped out a lot of the big players and it made it really hard for the competitors who aren't lean and aren't agile.

Rob Moore:                        And as an entrepreneur, who's in the early stages of your journey if you are, you are more lean and more agile by definition. And if you're not, you need to make sure that you are. So I would say that's the second tip. Always seeing the upside of disruption, the upside of chaos. And most people only see the downside because that's the human fear emotion coming in. And then the third thing is what you can plan for. And here's the reality of planning. And I don't think anyone really says this. So hopefully this is a unique answer for your podcast, Nick. The only thing you can plan for is the thing you can't plan for because you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. So people are planning for scenario A, scenario B, scenario D. In fact, in pre lockdown, I planned and for scenario B C D E F G.

Rob Moore:                        But in reality, what happened was unique to what I planned for but could take excerpts of various plans and create a hybrid that worked. So I think the people who succeed the most are able to adapt, evolve, bob, weave, and dance with what happens and not overly plan, because you cannot plan for the future. The best way to be ready is to be ready for what you don't know you can be ready for. I know it's a paradox.

Nick Bradley:                      No, I get it. I get it. Yeah. It's almost over prepare to some extent, because you kind of think of as many of the contingencies as possible, but even if the thing that lands in front of you, isn't exactly what you plan for. You've done enough planning. Well, maybe not enough, but you've done more, you've got a better chance if you like, of being able to get a better result from it.

Rob Moore:                        Yeah. Just start planning for what you couldn't plan for. And I know, again, I know that sounds like a paradox, but it gets you thinking in a different way. It gets you capacity planning, disaster planning and all those kind of things.

Nick Bradley:                      Mate, I love, I love our conversations, as I say, I've sat in a room with you for days. And as I said, I wouldn't have been doing this podcast without that inspiration, sir. So thank you so much for coming on the 100th episode, I've been looking forward to this immensely. Love the conversation and for anyone listening who hasn't listened to Rob Moore's Disruptive Entrepreneur podcast, we put a link into the show notes it's by far and away, my view, the best UK business one, if not one of the best business podcasts in the world.

Rob Moore:                        Thank you.

Nick Bradley:                      So Rob Moore, thank you for coming on the show.

Rob Moore:                        My pleasure.



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